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CCC "Marking" of No-Cost Course Sections - An SB 1359 Update - Shared screen with speaker view
M P
20:06
Greetings all! Michelle Pilati here - we will get started in just a moment.
M P
38:46
#1…
M P
39:09
Yes? No?
Sarah Bosler
39:13
1 and 2
Carol Hutte
39:31
no to 1
Sarah Bosler
39:32
1. Yes
maggie frankel
39:35
no?
Patrick McClanahan
39:38
no
Jennifer Pakula
39:46
no
Sarah Bosler
39:46
2. yes
Tamar Khajadourian
39:50
Yes
Sharlene Paxton
40:03
It seems like the visibility is supposed to be in the online schedule, not the bookstore (though both would be better for students).
Carol Hutte
40:20
agree
Antonio López
40:46
It depends on how they enter, but they may have to click through to a second level to see the designation.
Sarah Bosler
40:55
I see
Patrick McClanahan
41:59
yes
M P
42:00
#2 - yes or no? Yes, consistent, No, not.
Sarah Bosler
42:10
2. Ye
Antonio López
42:15
not consistent
Tamar Khajadourian
42:21
2. yes
maggie frankel
42:22
maybe kinda technially
Lara Braff
42:28
2. yes, but an icon is better
Christie Howell
42:36
yes, but I like the icon too
Carol Hutte
42:55
If somehow is more visible italicized/bolded than just part of note text
Sarah Bosler
43:04
I like the icon as well but it started not displaying correctly in ours and then they went to text.. maybe due to accessibility?
M P
43:49
How about #3?
Patrick McClanahan
43:58
NO
Sarah Bosler
44:00
3. No
Antonio López
44:04
not a pdf, but courses can be filtered by ZTC
maggie frankel
44:08
no.
Lara Braff
44:10
no
Christie Howell
44:11
no
Sharlene Paxton
44:12
no
Michael Bobo
44:13
3. No if not visible to public immediately
Allison Murray
44:15
Helpful, but not compliant.
Carol Hutte
44:16
no. extra step . should be able see live
Tamar Khajadourian
44:53
Not, seperately on a pdf but within the entire class pdf schedule. Through the online registration portal students are able to view only the ZCTC classes along with Low Cost.
Michael Bobo
46:12
Can the ASCCC or another governing body standardize a logo for us all?
Tamar Khajadourian
46:16
LACCD
M P
47:05
Thanks for playing!
Antonio López
47:28
How are we collecting the information
Jennifer Pakula
47:53
Saddleback College uses a different logo. Ours says “zero textbook cost”
Antonio López
47:57
in other words, how is the college collecting ztc courses?
M P
48:04
Antonio - which information? Sorry, it has been a long week.
M P
48:21
Ah - we’re getting to that - hold on.
Antonio López
48:27
whether or not a course is ztc
M P
48:46
That’s the biggest challenge - well, one of them.
Antonio López
48:55
I am using ztc to be the same as sb1359
Antonio López
50:42
sorry, I have a meeting. great meeting!
Sharlene Paxton
51:31
So for the purposes of SB 1359, would an art course that uses an OER textbook but charges students a fee for art supplies count as no cost? Or a math course that uses Lumen and is technically OER but requires students to pay a $25 fee for the platform? These are the kinds of questions that I get hung up on.
Sharlene Paxton
52:17
Ok, I can wait:)
Lara Braff
53:36
my understanding is that these supplies/materials last beyond the duration of the course
Lara Braff
53:47
(so cost is okay)
Sarah Bosler
53:55
but if it’s under a certain cost… I know that’s debateable $40-50
Sarah Bosler
54:25
it still counts as low cost, right?
Sharlene Paxton
54:28
This discussion is very helpful. Thanks, all!
Sarah Bosler
54:44
I know that’s a different topic though.
Carol Hutte
58:11
Relying on self-reporting is always problematic
Sarah Bosler
58:42
I think the timing on the textbook identification process also needs to occur in a way where students have access to this accurate info before they register for courses.
Sarah Bosler
59:50
As I’ve been asking these questions on my campus it’s been brining up the fact that there is not a clear process for this and needs to be so it helps to ask these questions.
Michael Bobo
01:01:47
It sounds like this is a procedural requirement. If the procedure exists then we assume it will be implemented in varying degrees.
Carol Hutte
01:04:10
yes
Christine DeCamp
01:04:15
yes
maggie frankel
01:04:35
yes !
Lara Braff
01:04:36
yes - to help students. no - for the purpose of data collection
Sarah Bosler
01:04:47
I agree with Lara.
Sarah Bosler
01:05:06
I always have to skip the KIN classes when I count up how many OER sections we have
Sharlene Paxton
01:05:18
yes, though ideally they should have a separate "no text" or "no materials required label"
Lara Braff
01:05:33
we are addressing this right now because we want to collect data on the impact of the transition from conventional textbooks to OER. So, we want data on this. But, we also want students to know which courses carry additional costs and which do not
Sarah Bosler
01:05:42
I agree with Sharlene too.
Allison Murray
01:05:51
At my college, we’re using a differently colored icon for TFC (Textbook-free courses, which have historically never had a text).
Sarah Bosler
01:06:21
No Cost / Low Cost / Textbook Free Course as options maybe
Sharlene Paxton
01:07:05
I think students want to know what they need to purchase for the course and how much everything costs. We want to take a deeper dive into the data and be able to differentiate no-text, true OER, ZTC, low-cost, etc.
Sarah Bosler
01:07:10
We also have classes that are listing a required and optional texts so if it’s an OER for the required but optional text is $100, should those be listed as no cost?
Sarah Bosler
01:08:14
We also have a label that is “choice”
Sharlene Paxton
01:08:24
optional should be no-cost
Christie Howell
01:08:25
yes, if optional
Lara Braff
01:08:27
yes - it is not required
Tamar Khajadourian
01:08:31
YYes
Jennifer Pakula
01:08:36
driving so this is short and likely with errors - I think that courses should be labeled even if they don’t have a book
Jennifer Pakula
01:08:44
red ligt
Jennifer Pakula
01:08:47
:)
Allison Murray
01:08:53
Agreed, so long as it’s not a required text.
maggie frankel
01:08:57
no if the option can be really important to understanding the content?
Jennifer Paris
01:09:20
I think some colleges cannot do more than one.
Michael Bobo
01:09:35
That speaks to my point on standardization of these logos and terms. Yikes!
Jennifer Paris
01:09:35
or that is what they are being told by their IT people
maggie frankel
01:09:39
I wouldn't want it to be a haves vs "have nots" thing though
Sarah Bosler
01:09:40
I would agree too
Jennifer Pakula
01:09:44
if the goal is to provide information to students about courses without any costs beyond tuition, then it makes sense to flag as many courses that fit that category
Allison Murray
01:09:45
Right, we have 3 logos: ZTC, LOW, and TFC
Amanda Taintor
01:10:18
Yes! It has to be required
Sarah Bosler
01:10:29
Interesting…
Amanda Taintor
01:10:30
Vouchers are the same
Michael Bobo
01:10:34
Equity and Accessibility is vital in these adoption choices. Excellent point Maggie!
Sarah Bosler
01:10:43
allison, what campus are you at?
Allison Murray
01:11:11
Hmm, I’ll find out.
Jennifer Pakula
01:11:29
At school pick-up, thank you!! very interesting discussion - looking forward to hearing what we decide.
Sharlene Paxton
01:11:51
no, they are not yet clearly differentiated, and YES, I would love them to be!
Sarah Bosler
01:11:55
no
M P
01:11:57
Clear - or clear as mud?
Christine DeCamp
01:11:58
no
Sarah Bosler
01:12:22
ZTC vs. No Cost? what’s the dif?
Michael Bobo
01:12:26
We need direction in my region
Sarah Bosler
01:13:12
so if the library buys a digital ebook is it ZTC no no cost
M P
01:13:49
If the library purchases it and there is no cost passed to the student, it is both.
Sarah Bosler
01:13:53
I think the senate can make recommended guidelines but each campus can implement as they see fit
maggie frankel
01:14:19
yes! it will only make things better for students. though that's easier said...
Sharlene Paxton
01:14:23
Yes, I would like AS to come up with guidelines. Campuses can determine whether to adhere to them or not, but at least there's something that we can all adopt if we want to, and we're working with common definitions for ZTC, TFC, low-cost, etc.
Sarah Bosler
01:14:30
But there is benefits to consistency as students attend more that one college
Michael Bobo
01:14:33
Best practices seems to work best in Distance Education and OER in my experience. Faculty are hard to convince in RCCD.
Sharlene Paxton
01:14:41
It will also help those of us who are doing data collection and want clean data that is consistent around the state
Sarah Bosler
01:15:48
agreed, Sharlene, good point
Kathy Schultz
01:18:14
Thank you!
Sharlene Paxton
01:18:15
Thanks! This was very useful!
Michael Bobo
01:18:15
Thank you for this opportunity to reconvene!
Sarah Bosler
01:18:18
Thanks!
Susi Nitzel
01:18:21
Thanks!
Christine DeCamp
01:18:22
Thank you
maggie frankel
01:18:23
Thank you!
Tamar Khajadourian
01:18:37
Thank you