AB 705 Adjustments, Ethnicity, Gender and Special Populations - Shared screen with speaker view
The Chancellor’s Office maintains a website with all things assessment/AB705 here: https://assessment.cccco.edu
The official guidance is in the Resources page there: https://assessment.cccco.edu/resources/
Or directly here: https://assessmentplacement.squarespace.com/s/0718-AB-705-Implementation-Memorandumpdf.pdf
All of the MMAP AB705-related publications are available on the MMAP website: http://rpgroup.org/RP-Projects/All-Projects/Multiple-Measures/Publications
Where have you gotten the data for these charts?
How many students in this analysis?
All of that information is included in the technical papers referenced before the charts.
We omitted the N's on the slides to make it more readable for the webinar but can upload the version with the counts, we'll address that at the end of charts as well
Can you say more about whether the groups who start in transfer level versus one below are comparable groups? Is there anything different about the characteristics of the group that start in transfer-level (tested in via accuplacer, had the social capital to ask for counselor override, etc) versus start one level below? I think that was what you did the regression adjusted levels to account for, but are these numbers being presented now regression adjusted?
The data are all from CalPASS
Did instructors know about being part of the study?
Are these success rates for the courses with or without supplemental instruction?
@giselas-mac - There’s no study - this is all done with retrospective data analysis.
@kchristiana690 - the success rates are for courses throughout the entire system some of which may or may not include supplemental instruction.
will DSS counselors receive guidelines or training regarding placing students? It seems like they will have a lot of responsibility in deciding where DSS students should be placed.
Can you please clarify the point about DSPS students with severe cognitive impairment? Is the point that you are not able to separate out those students in your analysis? They are still included in the overall numbers, correct?
Are the transfer level English courses represented WITH or WITHOUT required corequisites? If with, who had the corequisites?
@angelovam - Here are links to each of the papers covered by these charts: DSPS/EOPS Report: https://bit.ly/2qcL8lfGender/Ethnicity Report: https://bit.ly/2EMoBGbTechnical Report: https://bit.ly/2JgxK8L
Have you looked at your data comparing full-time to part-time status?
i my experience the Range 1 group may be very smal in comparison to the Range 2 group
In this regard results might nbe affected by students personal characteristics, knowledge and skills.
Also, does this analysis controll for the ammount of academic support comparison groups are receiving?
@angelovan - it’s just students across the existing curriculum.
Sorry if I missed it, but was the earlier question: "will DSS counselors receive guidelines or training regarding placing students? It seems like they will have a lot of responsibility in deciding where DSS students should be placed"...addressed? I don't think I heard a response about this one.
thanks, Sarah, no response yet
Were international students accounted for in this study?
You are suggesting, highly recommending support but how do you suggest students be placed in those courses, by GPA? Required for specific GPA bands or only optional?
@sarah, sorry I knew I missed a question! I believe the next round of guidance from the Chancellor's Office will contain more information. I know that CAPED had a conference next week and I'm not sure if there was an effort planned there. In general, our recommendation is for the DSPS folks to keep doing their good work and have confidence in their accommodations. But we will ask our CAPED colleagues if they have plans for more guidance.
@IVC international students are included but we did not do a specific breakout for them. on the ESL side we are focusing more on that group
Are you concerned about HS GPA placement into support courses will segregate specific populations?
I was at CAPED last weekend. We did have a lot of questions and recommendations.
Has it been brought up that perhaps streamlining approval of non-credit courses like the one at College of the Redwoods be looked at? We would like to have these courses as a support but it will take time to not only create the course outline but also have it approved at the state.
I would call attention to a recent CCRC Report on Tennessee's experience with Guided Patthways. Part of that report focuses on TN's experience with their version of AB 705. The report has data for All Students as well as by Ethnicity and Age. All groups are benefiting. The particular value of the data is that it provides another marker as to what throughput rates might look like in CA once AB 705 is fully implemented. Here's the link to the report -- https://ccrc.tc.columbia.edu/publications/building-guided-pathways-community-college-student-success.html
@cruse, it is a local decision to make the support optional v required, many colleges are going to guided self placement but some are requiring
@cruse, yes there is some concern about separating students by support level and also concern about removing the stigma associated with support
Can these Q&A chats be posted, please? There are a lot of good resources listed, and it would be helpful to be able to refer back to this.
I realize this is a local decision but can you address the segregation concern when using GPA to require or even recommend concurrent/corequisite support?
@cruse - I remain concerned about potential segregation based on HSGPA but I strongly suspect that there will be less segregation than we currently see in our developmental education pathways and far less stigma associated with taking transfer-level with support than being required to retake arithmetic in courses that are dispropotionately students of color & low income.
Yes, the chat gets included with the archived webinar.
@erutland, i bet there were lots of questions at CAPED, any key recommendations that came out?
Citrus: Did you restrict which students had access to the coreq support class?
How many students are in the statistics classes?
I want to draw attention to/second the fear above about segragation. If colleges design courses with corequisite support in which all students are required to take the coreq I fear we are looking at segregating all students with a 1.9 or below GPA into particular classes. Is there anything MMAP, ERP, can do/research to steer colleges away from segregating students into classes by GPA? (Agree with Hetts comment above, it is likely to be less segregation, but I feel like we have an opportunity here to support true integration. How can we seize that?)
@cruse, I aggree with Hetts, it is an issue to be aware of and discuss at our colleges
how did you estimate how many support courses you would need?
Hi, I realized I used the word "burden" in reference to supporting DSPS students and want to clarify that we bear the burden of the responsibility to support all students including proving effective accommodations to those with disabilities, I did not mean to imply that any of our students themselves are "burdens". I apologize for not being more clear.
@cgordondacruz - IIRC, a few colleges like SIskiyous, redesigned their entry-level transfer-level courses to increase the unit load and then have all students take the same course. This has some consequences for student financial aid and unit load for students who may not need the additional assistance/units but does mitigate concerns about segregation of students from the different bands.
In all of the “just in time” and tutoring and study skills efforts, both in math and English, where are y’all placing explicit reading instruction? The critical reading needs of students continue in English, across the disciplines, their entire academic career, for all students but especially for those students who have not received the same access to explicit reading instruction in high school. Is everyone on board with explicit reading instruction? BTW, when I use the term reading I refer to analytical, metacognitive reading processes, not decoding.
@ Terrence Willett, a lot of questions need to be answered before recommendations can be given. I will let the official communication to handle this. But the main issue is: CAPED and DSS professionals should have been included in this discussion from day one. Now we are trying to find solutions and we have very little time.
@rs76603, for Statistics in the HSGPA < 1.9 band there were 7,248 in that range who took stats, we had 1,749 for whom we had ACCUPLACER scores for the statistical adjustment, for theh one level below throughput estimate we had 13,241, these are overall numbers and are smaller for the disaggregations
Has it been brought up that perhaps streamlining approval of non-credit courses like the one at College of the Redwoods be looked at? We would like to have these courses as a support but it will take time to not only create the course outline but also have it approved at the state. - can we please get an answer to this question?
@erutland - We’re not the folks that have the answer to that question… that’s a question for the CCCCO.
can you please share an example of this data?
Who are your external experts?
@erutland, we have had broad forums, workshops, and presented at many conferences that included DSPS and the statewide AB 705 committee does include Student Service managers over DSPS programs. There has been much discussion of those services. But there are many issues coming up that in some cases have been long standing that we all are viewing with new eyes. I think we should definitely all engage in as much inclusive discussion as possible
@erutland re: support courses, yes it definitely takes time, some colleges have shown good success with SI workshops and other non-course supplemental supports that don't require the lengthy approval process that could be put into place more quickly. But you hit on a key point that if a college wants non-credit supports, it will definitely take time to implement and we have to be prepared for that timing.
@Terrence Willett, thank you
I’m trying to dig up the SSSC Conference link so if you’d like to see the sample, hang on a sec - don’t jump off right away.
@erutland that would be another question for the CCCCO.
Here’s a link to our guest speaker’s SSSC conference presentation: http://rpgroup.org/Portals/0/Documents/Conferences/StudentSuccess/2018SSSCMaterials/SSSC18_Presentation_Materials/Building_Cultures_of_Improvement/AdvancingEquityMindedness.pdf
Is this the presentation: