BTW, is there a way to set up Zoom chat so that later joiners can see earlier chat messages?
That’s a great question - I know we can archive it and make it available.
Right, I did notice when I was recording for my "virtual class session" (something I learned from Cindy), that chat does get recorded into the recording, starting from the point when the recording started ...
Hello, is there supposed to be sound? I can't hear anyone.
I just remember in one of the meetings, having to repeat something like 6 times, because the people who join later couldn't see the message/link posted into chat earlier.
I can hear you! Thank you :)
I wish they had said "sections" instead of "courses" because not all secitons in a course might be ZTC.
Great point Dan. These are the types of things we are hoping to discuss today.
example of OpenStax in that there is a free PDF download and you can also purchase a print copy for a low cost.
but can that "class size" purchase of books by a college be sustaniable?
What if the instructor requires a student to print their ZTC textbook, and it costs $58?
I mean OER textbook?
An example I remember seeing addressed was a cosmetology class, that may have a materials fee. I *thought* that was both ZTC and "no-cost".
If they REQUIRE printing, then I would not consider it to be ZTC.
Same thing with lab manuals. I can get instructors to make it online (for free), but they are required to print out completed pages.
CO has allowed class sets.
I've been asked by several faculty about the purchase of a textbook that is used across a series of classes/semesters. Is it a cost for the 1st class in the series and then ZTC for subsequent classes?
Mary- What if a student is allowed to join the second course and has to buy the textbook at that time?
What if the student doesn't start the sequence at that college until term 2 or 3?
That is the question Kathy and why I wanted a confirmation to share.
As instructor for one of these sequence courses (Physics 4A-4B-4C), I would agree with Dan. I've seen many students in PHYS 4B or 4C who were at my college for the first time.
Eliminate the use of term "Textbook"
Our redesign of our college (and district) websites took away strict compliance with SB 1359. Haven't had a chance to talk to the higher-ups about it.
If we are taking a vote, I would vote yes.
Library Science classes are I think classic example.
I am sorry, can you repeat the question?
I vote YES
Bottom line is "what is the cost to the student?"
Depends. It wouldn't work for us since we use the designators for tracking. Don't want to include a PE course in our ZTC data
At Long Beach City, we’re calling them ZTC, but are using a different color on the ZTC icon, so we can differentiate between OER courses and non-textbook classes.
Yes, only "cost" or "no cost"
We had decided to include these into ZTC sections as we want to be consistent & clear with students who are primarily considered with the free cost and not how it is made that way.
I vote yes! No cost is no cost. Our school's still working toward the designation though.
do students care?
For the students, I don't know if it matters
Students only care if there is a cost or no cost
I think what matters is students know there is no textbook cost
If the end result is the student doesn’t have any cost, what difference does it make?
Our KIN classes do have textbooks, mostly
Right. Just meaning we don't to include a course that's never used a text in our ZTC data
Not sure I understand how it matters at all "how" a course became no cost.
I can see this being more of an important question if there compensation to the instructor for having ZTC material.
Free is useful for the main class page (you don't have to spend money) but they SHOULD be told that they will need digital resources. This could be explained on the bookstore link for the class
And compensating faculty would be inappropriate since not all areas have alternatives.
Re: PE/kinesiology. many of our courses state "instructor-generated materials." Usually meaning handouts.
I guess some depends on the customizability of your SIS platform. Ours is very limited and it was difficult just to get ITS to include one additional search factor/logo.
But.... materials fee for Lumen materials would not make it ZTC.
That seems unrealistic.
Yes, especially as initiatives like CVC-OEI course exchange continue to grow
Consistent practices are a good idea
I was thinking about the course exchange as well
Does CVC-OEI search system mark for ZTC/no-cost?
Ideally consistent. Statewide library system also comes to mind in the move towards consistency.
I think there should be consistency, not only for students but also for instructors who teach in different campuses
@Andrew - they have been discussing this. If it isn't labeled yet, I think they may be considering it.
We may not be able to be wholly consistent but maybe a few guidelines. For example, if there is a material fee it cannot be listed as no cost.
It would be really nice to have clean and clear language from the OERI to share with my colleagues who want to argue whether or not a course should be designated as ZTC.
I second that! :)
I agree Allison. Just to get our administrators on the same page would be fabulous.
Will that state-wide system also have a digital shelf/space for OER so students can access their instructor adoptions in one place?
@Allison - that's a great idea! It won't at first, but that capability does exist, I believe
Sorry, another question that might have already been addressed... what is considered "low cost"
do they also restrict students for searching for online sections?
@Aloha, we’re looking into a possible digital library shelf at my college. But if it’s available at the state-wide level, that would be amazing.
Very interesting, @Allison. I will take this idea to the statewide meetings
Library systems should have e-reserve capability to allow for seamless OER access
Please, and thank you, @Aloha.
We have a district task force considering a low-cost designation. Thinking about $40.
We have a goal to designate "low-cost" by the end of this semester.
But wouldn't that be problematic because OER allows for remixing?
Interesting possibilities ahead!
But we won't all be subscribing to the same e-book collections.
It is the same library system with different instances of it to result in the particular library's collection...not a shared collection.
Remixing to a point. There are "versions" allowed, i.e., students use version 5.1 for spring English 101 class
But it has the capability for sharing
Its similar to Canvas in that regard.
E-reserves with OER requires faculty to maintain and update to most current version
Nope, I'm not going to give access to DVC or Cabrillo. LOL
that's for richard and aloha.
Sharing is caring!
I think the idea of Lumen and homework systems also came up and that is another point to consider
I'm curious how people are keeping their online schedules up to date. Who collects the info from faculty, who actually makes the notation in the schedule? Who then changes it when a different faculty member teaches the section?
Yes, my college/district "improved" our websites and it makes it harder to identify ZTC sections. Grrrr.
On our campus that's my role. I'm the OER librarian and the only one doing that sort of tracking and reporting to change the schedule
Mary - Mesa's bookstore handles that.
@Mary that is our challenge too. Office of instruction gets faculty's adoption so No Cost designation sometimes not accurate if faculty report incorrectly.
Office of instruction is entering data
Mary- Right now, faculty turn that informaiton into their Dean's with their proposed schedules
@Mary, at my college, ZTC and LOW designations have to go through me for approval (via email) and then I send a request to our scheduling techs, who add in the icon, so it happens instantaneously.
Our OER Coordinator does it on our campus
Yes, us too, office of instruction
In our MySite system faculty flag their own courses as ZTC. (Saddleback College)
No one wants to take responsibility on our campus. I’m working on it...
Who checks to confirm that they are truly using OER? It seems the data is only as good as the self-reporting of the faculty.
I "volunteered" myself as the oversight person for ZTC designation. The Instruction Office gets a list from the College Bookstore of sections that state "no materials required." Those sections get the ZTC designation and I then check the schedule off that list.
Same for us LIndsey. I've been doing what I can, but would love to develop a formal process.
Or, "I'm linking out to a pirated PDF. So, no cost to students"
We have not have too many issues with it, but our OE dean is on it if not. We also send out an email to faculty to remind them to flag when the new class schedule comes out and also send out parameters of what constitutes ZTC, etc.
Haha...yes, Suzanne. I have seen that numerous times now.
And is the bookstore clearly labeling the print copies so that students know it's available freely online?
Aloha - here they do.
@Aloha. Good point! I think that is hard for them.
It might be inadvertent, but it seems sad
Our bookstore created a "book" with ISBN called "free digital version, see instructor"
Our Follett bookstore has just "free OER" designation.
Frustrating when the cost of the print copy is in large letters and the"free PDF download" is in the smallest font possible.
Would love to see all these examples in one place...maybe images of what bookstore labels say
For the OpenStax book we are using ... I just tell my students to get it from Amazon. :|
Has anyone else had problems with their bookstore adding on a high mark up to low-cost text and courseware access codes? Our store, Barnes and Nobel, has been adding an obscene mark up to low-cost access codes and other materials. They’ve also added on “required materials lists” to ZTC course listings that the instructor hasn’t requested.
Sorry if I missed this but will this slide show be available to us separately from the recording of the session?
Great idea, Jennifer! I will do that asap.
@kathy, yes. We will make sure its avilable seperately
Thank you, everyone! Would the power point be sent to us?
Oh hi! I'm here
No, it was by Hammond and Cheney
Thank you all!
Thank you so much!
Thanks! See you next week!
Thank you all
Thank you! this had been great!